Legislature(2013 - 2014)BARNES 124

02/04/2013 01:00 PM House RESOURCES


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01:32:39 PM Start
01:33:19 PM HB4
03:25:35 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Delayed to 1:30 pm Today --
*+ HB 4 IN-STATE GASLINE DEVELOPMENT CORP TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
            HB   4-IN-STATE GASLINE DEVELOPMENT CORP                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:33:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  announced that  the only  order of  business is                                                               
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO.  4, "An Act relating to the                                                               
Alaska  Gasline   Development  Corporation;  making   the  Alaska                                                               
Gasline  Development  Corporation,  a subsidiary  of  the  Alaska                                                               
Housing  Finance Corporation,  an independent  public corporation                                                               
of the state;  establishing and relating to  the in-state natural                                                               
gas pipeline fund;  making certain information provided  to or by                                                               
the Alaska  Gasline Development Corporation and  its subsidiaries                                                               
exempt from inspection as a  public record; relating to the Joint                                                               
In-State  Gasline  Development  Team;   relating  to  the  Alaska                                                               
Housing  Finance  Corporation;  relating  to  the  price  of  the                                                               
state's royalty  gas for certain contracts;  relating to judicial                                                               
review of a  right-of-way lease or an action  or decision related                                                               
to the development  or construction of an oil or  gas pipeline on                                                               
state land;  relating to the  lease of  a right-of-way for  a gas                                                               
pipeline  transportation corridor,  including  a  corridor for  a                                                               
natural gas pipeline that is  a contract carrier; relating to the                                                               
cost of  natural resources, permits,  and leases provided  to the                                                               
Alaska Gasline  Development Corporation; relating  to procurement                                                               
by the  Alaska Gasline Development  Corporation; relating  to the                                                               
review  by the  Regulatory Commission  of Alaska  of natural  gas                                                               
transportation  contracts;  relating  to the  regulation  by  the                                                               
Regulatory  Commission  of  Alaska  of an  in-state  natural  gas                                                               
pipeline  project developed  by  the  Alaska Gasline  Development                                                               
Corporation;  relating  to  the   regulation  by  the  Regulatory                                                               
Commission of  Alaska of  an in-state  natural gas  pipeline that                                                               
provides  transportation by  contract carriage;  relating to  the                                                               
Alaska  Natural  Gas  Development   Authority;  relating  to  the                                                               
procurement  of  certain  services  by  the  Alaska  Natural  Gas                                                               
Development Authority; exempting property  of a project developed                                                               
by  the  Alaska  Gasline Development  Corporation  from  property                                                               
taxes  before  the  commencement of  commercial  operations;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:33:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MIKE CHENAULT,  Alaska  State Legislature,  joint                                                               
prime sponsor, first  noted that this process of  how to monetize                                                               
Alaska's Prudhoe  Bay gas  and bring it  to tidewater  to benefit                                                               
the most  Alaskans has been ongoing  for 30-some years.   He said                                                               
he is not here to argue  the size, location, or destination of an                                                               
in-state  gas pipeline,  but rather  to explain  the project  the                                                               
sponsors have  put together in  the belief  that it has  the best                                                               
opportunity  to  bring  gas  to  Alaskans  in  the  near  future.                                                               
Building a  24 inch high pressure  line or a 36  inch 1,440 pound                                                               
per  square  inch (psi)  line  would  be  considered a  big  pipe                                                               
anywhere else in the world.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:35:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT continued, stating  that while it may not                                                               
be the magical 48  inch pipe, a pipeline of this  size would do a                                                               
number of  things.  It would:   bring down the  cost of utilities                                                               
for  Fairbanks,  improve  the   air  quality  which  hampers  how                                                               
Fairbanks heats  its homes,  bring a  long-term energy  supply to                                                               
the Cook Inlet,  and along the way it would  help rural Alaska by                                                               
providing propane and possibly jobs.   He pointed out that [since                                                               
being established  under] House  Bill 369  [in 2010],  the Alaska                                                               
Gasline Development  Corporation (AGDC) has completed  every task                                                               
before it and  more.  Now, tools are needed  in AGDC's toolbox to                                                               
move forward, and  [SSHB 4] would provide the  tools the sponsors                                                               
believe  would get  Alaska  to an  open season  to  see if  there                                                               
really is a market for selling Alaska's gas.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:37:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT opined  it is time to make a  choice.  As                                                               
requested, AGDC developed a plan.   Now the legislature must give                                                               
AGDC its next  direction and the tools to carry  out its mission,                                                               
or the legislature  needs to pull the plug.   There is no halfway                                                               
unless the  legislature is okay with  driving up the cost  to the                                                               
Alaskans who will eventually pay for  gas - every time there is a                                                               
wait it  just costs the  state more.  It  is time to  deliver the                                                               
promise of gas to Alaskans through the Railbelt system.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:38:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RENA DELBRIDGE,  Staff, Representative Mike Hawker,  Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, on behalf of Representatives  Mike Chenault and Mike                                                               
Hawker, joint prime sponsors,  provided a PowerPoint presentation                                                               
to further  introduce SSHB 4.   She  said she will  be explaining                                                               
where  things are,  how  they  got to  this  point,  and how  the                                                               
sponsors  would like  to  move  forward with  SSHB  4 [slide  2].                                                               
"Alaska  has long  wanted to  develop Alaska's  rich North  Slope                                                               
natural  gas resource,"  she  said.   Development  would bring  a                                                               
clean, reliable,  reasonably priced energy solution  for Alaskans                                                               
that would  help with  electric and  home heating  costs, provide                                                               
economic development  opportunities for communities,  and provide                                                               
a  secure gas  supply for  industrial development  opportunities.                                                               
Further,  this  commercialization  of gas  would  generate  state                                                               
revenue  through production  taxes, royalty  gas, and  the future                                                               
oil and  gas exploration  and development that  a gas  line would                                                               
enable.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:40:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  pointed out that  Alaska has tried for  decades to                                                               
develop its  gas resource,  having been on  the table  before the                                                               
Trans-Alaska  Pipeline System  (TAPS) was  completed [slides  3].                                                               
Governor  Tony Knowles  worked to  develop a  gas line  under the                                                               
Stranded Gas  Development Act,  Governor Frank  Murkowski [worked                                                               
on the  issue], and Governor Sarah  Palin worked on it  under the                                                               
Alaska  Gasline Inducement  Act (AGIA).   But  it has  not worked                                                               
yet.   Part of  the problem,  in the  sponsors' opinion,  is that                                                               
there  are  divergent  interests.    Alaska  wants  in-state  gas                                                               
developed to  serve Alaskans and  to commercialize  the resource,                                                               
whereas the  private industry  that the state  has looked  to for                                                               
support  of  a   large  pipeline  needs  to  give   a  return  to                                                               
shareholders and make  profit from a resource in the  ground.  To                                                               
some, it is no  wonder that things have not worked  to date - any                                                               
project would  be of  massive scale,  massive costs,  and massive                                                               
risks.  The  state can be pretty prescriptive  in demanding terms                                                               
of a pipeline  and size of a  pipeline.  Industry can  be slow in                                                               
responding to meet  Alaska's needs.  And, markets  change - where                                                               
Alaska thinks  it has a  market for its  gas in a  large quantity                                                               
has evaporated;  so windows close  and windows open.   Right now,                                                               
alignment  with   the  "MOU  group",   where  the   governor  has                                                               
encouraged  TransCanada, ExxonMobil,  ConocoPhillips,  and BP  to                                                               
work together on  a new project, is promising.   But the sponsors                                                               
want to  know how long  Alaska is willing  to wait until  it gets                                                               
gas to Alaskans.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:41:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE recounted  that by 2010 there  was frustration with                                                               
a lack of progress  on a big pipeline [slide 4].   Trying to make                                                               
others develop a pipeline for  Alaska, on Alaska's terms, was not                                                               
delivering the results that Alaskans  wanted.  In 2010 members of                                                               
the legislature took  a fresh approach, deciding  that Alaska can                                                               
define what  it wants and then  do that itself.   In-state energy                                                               
use, a  need to get  gas to Alaskans,  was the primary  driver of                                                               
that.   There  was an  idea to  use the  state as  a catalyst  to                                                               
develop the early  engineering and design work on  a project that                                                               
would demonstrate for  the private sector that this  could be, in                                                               
fact, a  pipeline that can  work, and to demonstrate  to Alaskans                                                               
that an in-state  gas pipeline could, in fact,  deliver energy at                                                               
reasonable costs.   At the same time, members  of the legislature                                                               
wanted  to continue  providing opportunities  for private  sector                                                               
partners without asking  them to take on  the project themselves.                                                               
The legislature wanted to empower  an independent entity to serve                                                               
as the  nexus for people interested  in a project that,  to date,                                                               
the private  sector had been unwilling  or unable to take  on due                                                               
to  its   being  a   mega-project  of   huge  costs   and  risks.                                                               
Legislators  saw that  the  public benefit  of  having the  state                                                               
serve  as   a  catalyst  is   the  long-term   deliverability  of                                                               
reasonably priced gas for  heating homes, generating electricity,                                                               
providing   economic   stability   and  growth,   and   providing                                                               
opportunities for industrial development,  such as a power source                                                               
for large mines.   Legislators also clearly  heard the imperative                                                               
that Alaska address in-state energy issues.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:44:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  outlined the  goals of House  Bill 369,  passed in                                                               
2010:   build a team under  the leadership of the  Alaska Housing                                                               
Finance  Corporation  (AHFC),  have   the  team  consolidate  the                                                               
state's gas  pipeline work  to date,  have the  team fill  in the                                                               
data  gaps  and decide  an  optimal  route  for an  in-state  gas                                                               
pipeline, and have  the team report back to  the legislature with                                                               
a project plan.  She said  House Bill 369 passed with very broad,                                                               
bipartisan support and passed the  House unanimously.  The Alaska                                                               
Gasline  Development  Corporation (AGDC)  subsequently  delivered                                                               
with its  July 2011  project plan  [slide 6].   This  plan showed                                                               
that:  a pipeline for Alaskans  is possible, even without a major                                                               
export component;  an in-state  line could  deliver competitively                                                               
priced  gas   to  the  major  population   centers,  specifically                                                               
Fairbanks and Southcentral Alaska;  a project would require firm,                                                               
long-term contracts  for pipeline capacity to  support financing;                                                               
and some items would require legislative action.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:45:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  reviewed AGDC's recommendations [slide  7] for the                                                               
legislated authority  that it needs to  be able to:   determine a                                                               
pipeline  ownership structure,  work confidentially  with private                                                               
sector partners, operate as a  contract carrier, and decide rates                                                               
and [tariff] terms  for shipping gas on this  pipeline.  Further,                                                               
she said,  AGDC recommends  that the  state waive  property taxes                                                               
and state  land lease fees to  help keep the pipeline  costs down                                                               
and to provide sufficient funding.   Providing sufficient funding                                                               
is  not simply  a dollar  value, it  is to  carry AGDC  through a                                                               
stage within  its process.  It  is difficult to secure  the kinds                                                               
of contracts that  AGDC needs with certain  engineers and designs                                                               
for big  ticket items,  like a gas  conditioning facility  on the                                                               
North Slope, without  the surety for that  private sector partner                                                               
that the state is  serious and the money is going  to be there to                                                               
support  that contract  through the  length  of the  terms.   The                                                               
sponsors are pleased  with the work that AHFC and  AGDC have done                                                               
to progress this  project since 2010.  The  stage-gated and risk-                                                               
based project management approach  adopted by AGDC is appreciated                                                               
and the plan does exactly what AGDC was asked to do.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:46:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  moved from her  historical review to  where things                                                               
are at  today - SSHB  4.  She  said this legislation  proposes to                                                               
empower one entity, separated as  much as possible from politics,                                                               
to forge ahead and carry out  this plan [slide 8].  However, SSHB
4 is  not about  just one  gas line.   The sponsors  realize that                                                               
with  one gas  line in  place  the possibilities  for Alaska  are                                                               
probably endless.   The  bill creates  a statutory  framework for                                                               
this corporation  to go  through on  its project  plan and  to be                                                               
flexible and  responsive and seize  opportunities in  the future.                                                               
The bill  also maintains momentum  because delays hurt  - project                                                               
costs go  up with inflation by  $200 million or more  per year of                                                               
wait.   These  additional costs  would  be borne  by the  people,                                                               
including  Alaskans,  using gas  at  the  end of  this  pipeline.                                                               
Meanwhile, the Southcentral gas  supply and cost are increasingly                                                               
uncertain.  Energy costs continue  to be a devastating problem in                                                               
Fairbanks and  the air quality  problem in that community  has no                                                               
real end  in sight.   As urban costs increase,  rural communities                                                               
also hurt more.  Plus, there  is a continuing expectation for the                                                               
state to offset high costs of  energy in these communities, be it                                                               
through  direct  assistance  or the  state's  responsibility  for                                                               
covering energy costs for its own facilities and buildings.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:48:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  pointed out  that the  sponsors had  seven guiding                                                               
principles in  the drafting  of SSHB  4 [slide  9].   First, keep                                                               
politics  out  of  pipeline  development   and  let  the  markets                                                               
determine the way this pipeline  looks.  Second, build in maximum                                                               
flexibility and  options for AGDC  because at the beginning  of a                                                               
project there is only a general  idea of what the risks and costs                                                               
will be; as money is  spent refining the engineering, permitting,                                                               
and design,  there becomes a  better idea  of what the  costs and                                                               
risks will be.  For example,  at this point it is unknown exactly                                                               
what the  optimal ownership structure is  going to be to  get gas                                                               
to  Alaskans at  the lowest  possible price,  so AGDC  needs that                                                               
flexibility.  Third, support  an aggressive, responsible schedule                                                               
that is  driven by the  needs of  Alaskans.  Fourth,  let markets                                                               
shape pipeline  decisions.   Fifth, provide  reasonable backstops                                                               
for Alaska  gas consumers.   Sixth, include  ways that  the state                                                               
can  further keep  costs down  and enhance  a pipeline  project's                                                               
success.   By empowering AGDC  to go  forward with a  project the                                                               
state  is  making a  defacto  declaration  that  that is  in  the                                                               
state's  best interest,  and if  this project  is in  the state's                                                               
best interest the sponsors would like  to see the state assist it                                                               
as  much as  possible.   Seventh, respect  the state's  long-term                                                               
policy of encouraging future development  of Alaska's oil and gas                                                               
basins through pipeline development.   The state has always tried                                                               
to  ensure  that  infrastructure  is  developed  in  a  way  that                                                               
encourages additional exploration and production in the future.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:50:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  stated that  SSHB 4 attempts  to strike  a balance                                                               
between the free market forces  that the sponsors are counting on                                                               
to  become partners  to AGDC  to ship  gas versus  the tremendous                                                               
needs in Alaska that need to be  met [slide 10].  There is a need                                                               
to  balance the  public sector  support  in the  early stages  to                                                               
bring the  project to  an open season  where economics  will then                                                               
dictate  the project's  fate.    Under SSHB  4,  AGDC would  have                                                               
significant  authority and  autonomy, but  a clear  mission, that                                                               
can be  used to  get gas  from the North  Slope to  Fairbanks and                                                               
Southcentral Alaska  at the  lowest possible  costs and  to other                                                               
communities when AGDC  is able to so at a  reasonable price.  She                                                               
said  AGDC is  also  poised  to shift  gears  if another  project                                                               
develops that  delivers gas  to Alaskans  at the  lowest possible                                                               
costs  without  delay.    There   are  institutional  checks  and                                                               
balances built into SSHB 4 - yes,  a pipeline; but no, not at any                                                               
cost.   A  pipeline under  this  legislation may  not go  forward                                                               
unless  there  is  a  commercial   project  that  has  sufficient                                                               
contractual  support  for   financing  without  additional  state                                                               
financial participation.   Under SSHB 4, a gas  line must deliver                                                               
gas to Alaskans at a competitive price.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:51:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE specified that the  plan going forward under SSHB 4                                                               
is that  AGDC would first  and foremost be empowered  to continue                                                               
work  on  the  in-state  gas pipeline  [slide  11].    Sufficient                                                               
shipper support will be required  to finance a pipeline; the plan                                                               
is to  hold an  open season  in 2014,  which will  secure whether                                                               
that is a possibility.  The  target date for gas flowing is 2019.                                                               
Additionally,  AGDC  will work  with  TransCanada  and the  three                                                               
producers  as per  the governor's  request  to see  if those  two                                                               
projects can  merge into  one.   This is  uncertain as  there has                                                               
been no  development commitment  to date  by TransCanada  and the                                                               
three producers; however, they are  continuing to meet benchmarks                                                               
set out  by the governor  and the  sponsors are pleased  by that.                                                               
The governor  has specifically  identified AGDC  as a  partner to                                                               
that as  AGDC brings certain  assets to  the table that  can help                                                               
any project,  including an aggressive  timeline for  Alaskans, an                                                               
existing  state right-of-way  lease,  and  a final  Environmental                                                               
Impact Statement (EIS)  for a federal right-of-way.   At the same                                                               
time,  SSHB 4  equips AGDC  to be  prepared for  participation in                                                               
other frameworks.   A license is  still issued under AGIA,  so if                                                               
an export  line to the  Lower 48 is  built, AGDC can  shift gears                                                               
and consider  a spur  line to  serve Alaskans.   Once a  main in-                                                               
state line  is complete, AGDC,  under SSHB  4, is in  position to                                                               
evaluate other pipeline opportunities,  which could be connecting                                                               
lines  off  that mainline  to  other  communities and  industrial                                                               
developments to gas, as well  as other smaller stand-alone Alaska                                                               
gas pipelines that are needed and proved commercial.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:53:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE noted SSHB 4  can be broken conceptually into three                                                               
main areas [slide  12]:  a statutory framework for  AGDC to serve                                                               
as  Alaska's natural  gas pipeline  corporation, a  maximizing of                                                               
the state's efforts in [gas]  pipeline development, and resolving                                                               
of regulatory  uncertainties while supporting  future development                                                               
of Alaska's  resources.  Addressing  the first area  of statutory                                                               
framework,  she  said  AGDC  has   done  a  wonderful  job  as  a                                                               
subsidiary  of AHFC,  and AHFC  has been  a good  incubator while                                                               
AGDC studied  the issue  to see  if something  is possible.   Now                                                               
that it  is known something is  possible, SSHB 4 moves  AGDC from                                                               
its present location  as a subsidiary corporation and  makes it a                                                               
stand-alone  public corporation  of the  state located  under the                                                               
Department of Commerce, Community  & Economic Development (DCCED)                                                               
for  administrative purposes  only, which  essentially means  for                                                               
budget requests and  appropriations if necessary.   Under SSHB 4,                                                               
AGDC will  be governed by  a five-member board with  expertise in                                                               
relevant  fields, such  as natural  gas  pipelines, finance,  and                                                               
large project  management.  These  members would be  appointed by                                                               
the governor  and confirmed  by the legislature.   The  bill also                                                               
provides  clear  transition  language  to  ensure  that  the  re-                                                               
positioning of AGDC as a  corporation does not interfere with, or                                                               
delay, any of the work that is  ongoing or any of the progress on                                                               
a pipeline project.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:55:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE reiterated  that  the  legislation clearly  states                                                               
AGDC's purpose [slide  14]:  to advance an  in-state gas pipeline                                                               
as described  in the July  2011 project plan,  with modifications                                                               
as appropriate  to make gas available  to Fairbanks, Southcentral                                                               
Alaska, and  other communities at  the lowest rates  possible; to                                                               
develop pipelines that serve utility  and industrial customers at                                                               
commercially reasonable rates; and  to develop pipelines offering                                                               
commercial rates to  shippers and that offer  access for shippers                                                               
that produce gas in Alaska.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE   specified  SSHB  4  provides   AGDC  with  clear                                                               
statutory  abilities   to  function  as  a   corporation  and  to                                                               
accomplish its purpose [slide 15].   She said this section of the                                                               
bill is  long and  very boilerplate;  for example,  a corporation                                                               
needs the  explicit authority to adopt  a seal and to  enter into                                                               
contracts and  hire people.   The section also  includes language                                                               
relevant to  AGDC's particular mission  so that AGDC may:   enter                                                               
into ownership  and operating partnerships;  create subsidiaries,                                                               
including a subsidiary  to market gas, such as  state royalty gas                                                               
or  gas  belonging to  others;  issue  revenue bonds  limited  to                                                               
AGDC's   own  backing   to  finance   a   pipeline;  enter   into                                                               
confidentiality  agreements  that  are necessary  to  participate                                                               
with private  sector shippers, partners owning  the pipeline, and                                                               
financiers;   and  keep   confidential  information   like  field                                                               
studies, data, and  tariff models, which are assets  that AGDC is                                                               
developing  for the  state with  the state's  money.   During the                                                               
time these  assets are of relevancy  to a project, the  intent is                                                               
that the state gain maximum return for these assets.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:58:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON inquired  whether SSHB 4  provides that                                                               
after  a  certain amount  of  time  the confidential  information                                                               
becomes the state's purview.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE replied  nothing in SSHB 4  explicitly states that.                                                               
However, at  the point  in time  that AGDC ceases  to exist  as a                                                               
corporation,  all  of  its  assets are  remanded  to  the  state.                                                               
Currently,  the concern  is  the data  being  generated for  this                                                               
project remain  confidential through  the time that  this project                                                               
is built.  She offered to  discuss ways to be more explicit about                                                               
that,  but said  it is  important to  protect the  value of  that                                                               
asset right  now, given  there are other  interests who  may find                                                               
the information beneficial.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:59:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  asked whether  it is usual  for a  developer of                                                               
such a large project to basically be its own financier.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  offered her belief  that with revenue bonds  it is                                                               
normal for  a project  to be  able to bond  for the  financing of                                                               
that project because it is the  one pledging the revenue from its                                                               
project to those funds.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:59:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE,  resuming  her   review  of  statutory  abilities                                                               
provided by SSHB 4, said AGDC  would be given ability to exercise                                                               
the state's existing power of eminent domain [slide 15].                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE commented  that the power of  eminent domain could                                                               
be  interpreted as  being fairly  heavy handed  and inquired  why                                                               
AGDC would need this power.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE advised  that the power to  exercise eminent domain                                                               
for a  pipeline project  exists within  state statute.   Granting                                                               
AGDC  the  power  to  exercise   eminent  domain  is  essentially                                                               
delegating that  power to AGDC  so that AGDC itself  can exercise                                                               
it  rather than  having to  go back  and work  through the  state                                                               
channels,  creating  the  potential  for  delays  and  additional                                                               
costs.   She  further advised  that AGDC  would only  be able  to                                                               
exercise  the state's  power  of eminent  domain  along the  same                                                               
lines  that the  state would  be able  to exercise  its power  of                                                               
eminent domain.   Thresholds are built into  statute that require                                                               
good-faith negotiations be  held with land owners  and those must                                                               
have failed to go to this  route.  Statute then requires that the                                                               
landholder  receive fair  compensation for  the property  that is                                                               
taken under eminent domain.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:01:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE,  turning back to  her review of SSHB  4, specified                                                               
that  SSHB 4  exempts  AGDC and  Alaska  Natural Gas  Development                                                               
Authority  (ANGDA)  from the  state  procurement  code and  state                                                               
personnel act,  as well as  the Executive Budget Act  [slide 16].                                                               
She said the  bill also applies public  official disclosure rules                                                               
to AGDC's  board members, therefore  AGDC board members  would be                                                               
required  to make  disclosures.   At  Representative P.  Wilson's                                                               
request,   Ms.  Delbridge   outlined  the   reasons  for   AGDC's                                                               
exemptions.  The  intent is still that AGDC gets  things from the                                                               
private sector and  SSHB 4 requires AGDC to, as  possible, give a                                                               
preference  to Alaskans  for procuring  services, materials,  and                                                               
hiring,  and  to  work  through   the  state's  labor  department                                                               
programs that train  and fit employees for  positions.  Exemption                                                               
from the procurement  code essentially means that  AGDC would not                                                               
have  to go  through  those particular  channels  that the  state                                                               
requires.  When procuring items,  AGDC needs to be flexible, move                                                               
quickly, and  be able to  work through  whatever terms it  can to                                                               
get the  absolute best  prices on things;  that might  not always                                                               
look like the  state procurement code procedures.   The situation                                                               
is also  one of  bulk materials  and contracts.   Much  of AGDC's                                                               
work going forward  will be for contract personnel  and AGDC will                                                               
need the  flexibility to move quickly  and to move into  the very                                                               
best expertise that it can.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:03:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  understood that  SSHB 4 would  encourage Alaska                                                               
hire.   He  then  asked whether  the bill  has  any provision  to                                                               
encourage veteran procurement preference.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE responded no, nothing in  SSHB 4 does that.  Alaska                                                               
Native   corporations   and   local   government   entities   are                                                               
specifically mentioned,  which, she said in  further response, is                                                               
in Section 1, page 3.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:04:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TUCK  requested   some  examples   be  provided,                                                               
although not  at this moment,  of how the state  procurement code                                                               
does not fit with the flexibility the sponsors' desire.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE agreed to do so.                                                                                                  
.                                                                                                                               
2:04:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  inquired whether these proposed  provisions would                                                               
put AGDC in the same situation as the Alaska Railroad.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  answered there are differences  between the Alaska                                                               
Railroad  and the  Alaska Permanent  Fund  Corporation and  AHFC.                                                               
She said she  is unsure what specifically  the railroad exemption                                                               
is  from the  state procurement  code, but  said the  railroad is                                                               
exempt  from  the Executive  Budget  Act  and AHFC  is  partially                                                               
exempt.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:05:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE, continuing  her  presentation,  stated that  AGDC                                                               
shall  publicize  the results  of  an  open  season when  it  has                                                               
successful  bids  for  pipeline  capacity.   This  provision  was                                                               
modeled largely after the  Federal Energy Regulatory Commission's                                                               
(FERC)  rules  governing  an  open   season  for  Alaska.    Once                                                               
commitments  are  signed,  AGDC  must publicly  state  who  those                                                               
shippers  are, how  much capacity  the  shippers have  contracted                                                               
for,  and over  what  length of  time.   This  is reassurance  to                                                               
Alaskans  that  these  are legitimate  shippers,  that  they  are                                                               
actually bidding up the space  required to fill up this pipeline,                                                               
and  that they  promising those  contracts for  a length  of time                                                               
that is reasonable and lets things work for the state.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:06:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  moved to slide 17  and said SSHB 4  would maximize                                                               
the state's efforts  in gas pipeline development.   The sponsors'                                                               
position is that  the passage of SSHB 4 and  direction of AGDC on                                                               
this  new mission  is  a  defacto finding  that  an in-state  gas                                                               
pipeline is in the state's  best interest and therefore the state                                                               
should be supporting this pipeline  as much as possible to reduce                                                               
delays and  keep costs as  low as possible.   To do this,  SSHB 4                                                               
redefines the  Alaska Natural  Gas Development  Authority (ANGDA)                                                               
as an  AGDC subsidiary and  adapts AGDC's  purpose to serve  as a                                                               
gas marketer.  A  gas marketer is a bit like  a gas aggregator in                                                               
that  it  might buy  gas  at  the top  of  the  pipeline, pay  to                                                               
transport  it, and  then  sell  it to  multiple  entities at  the                                                               
bottom of  the pipeline.   The bill encourages the  Department of                                                               
Natural  Resources  (DNR) commissioner  to  work  with AGDC,  and                                                               
particularly  a gas  marketing subsidiary,  to  make the  state's                                                               
royalty  gas available  for shipment  through  an AGDC  pipeline.                                                               
She noted  that this is to  make state royalty gas  available for                                                               
shipment, not to give the gas to  AGDC or a subsidiary and not to                                                               
sell it to any particular person  at any particular price as that                                                               
is a decision  that the DNR commissioner makes.   She pointed out                                                               
that SSHB 4  also limits the judicial review  of state permitting                                                               
decisions and  authorizations to  avoid delays  once construction                                                               
has started.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:08:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER inquired  whether SSHB  4 establishes  ANGDA as                                                               
the sole venue through which this gas could be marketed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  replied, "ANGDA would  be able  to serve as  a gas                                                               
marketer; AGDC  has the  ability to  create subsidiaries  for any                                                               
purpose,  but it  needs a  subsidiary to  do in  conjunction with                                                               
carrying out its mission."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:08:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked whether ANGDA has  the expertise to                                                               
be a gas marketer.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  offered her belief  that there is nothing  left of                                                               
ANGDA at the  moment, no existing board members  or personnel, so                                                               
the intent  is that ANGDA be  recreated to have the  expertise to                                                               
carry out that function.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired why [recreate ANGDA].                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE responded  ANGDA was created by  the voters through                                                               
initiative  in  the  early  2000s specifically  to  build  a  gas                                                               
pipeline by  2005.   That did  not work and  ANGDA took  on other                                                               
tasks as directed or at its  own initiative over the years to try                                                               
being involved in gas development in Alaska.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON asked  whether  the intent,  then, is  to                                                               
have a  marketing subsidiary  that is  named ANGDA  for political                                                               
purposes, given ANGDA  currently has no staff and  no purpose and                                                               
is just a name.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE answered AGDC does not need ANGDA to market gas.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:10:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  inquired  if the  reason for  limiting                                                               
judicial review of state  permitting decisions and authorizations                                                               
is  because each  department is  encouraged to  ensure the  state                                                               
gets this pipeline going.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE replied  judicial  review is  important and  gives                                                               
people a  voice, as  do the  public processes  that the  State of                                                               
Alaska requires when issuing permit  decisions and giving project                                                               
authorizations.   The  intent  is  not to  disallow  any of  that                                                               
public process, but to avoid the  kind of lawsuits that are filed                                                               
late in the process with the  specific intent to delay a project.                                                               
Delay happens when  a court issues injunctive relief  and calls a                                                               
halt  to  project construction  until  that  lawsuit is  settled.                                                               
That lawsuit may  or may not have any foundation  in the end, but                                                               
the project has  been stopped.  Delays are  incredibly costly and                                                               
difficult.   She specified that  this limit is strictly  of state                                                               
permitting  decisions, lease  issuances,  and authorizations,  so                                                               
people would still  have the public process before  a decision or                                                               
authorization  is made  in which  to participate.   She  said she                                                               
believes  the limitation  restricts  complaints  to the  superior                                                               
court  and prohibits  injunctive relief  so that  a court  cannot                                                               
delay  the  process.    If   someone  has  a  challenge  to  this                                                               
particular provision, he/she has a  set period of time after this                                                               
bill passes to  challenge that.  Further, if a  person feels that                                                               
the state has made some sort  of a decision or authorization that                                                               
violates his/her  constitutional rights,  the person has  60 days                                                               
from the time  that that state decision is made  to challenge it.                                                               
Thus,  avenues  are  maintained  for  legal  challenge,  but  the                                                               
boundaries of those are restricted.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON responded that makes perfect sense.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:13:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  understood this kind of  post-sanction judicial                                                               
limitation has  been a feature of  all the gas line  proposals in                                                               
Alaska over  the last decade  and that it  was also a  feature of                                                               
the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System (TAPS) authorization.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE responded she does  not know about all gas pipeline                                                               
projects, but  the theory  is that  [a limitation]  is reasonable                                                               
when  the  state  has  decided  that something  is  in  the  best                                                               
interest of  the people of  the state  and therefore wants  to go                                                               
through with  it.  She  confirmed that  TAPS did enjoy  limits on                                                               
judicial review, and she further  believed that that is also part                                                               
of the 2004 federal Alaska Natural Gas Pipeline Act.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:14:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  proceeded with her  review of SSHB 4,  saying that                                                               
to maximize the state efforts  at gas development the bill waives                                                               
state  and local  property  taxes  during pipeline  construction.                                                               
The  legislation requires  state entities  to cooperate  with and                                                               
share information with AGDC.   This means that AGDC's requests to                                                               
other  state agencies  would receive  priority,  except for  AGIA                                                               
requests  which have  already claimed  priority,  and also  means                                                               
that  AGDC  and state  entities  can  enter into  confidentiality                                                               
agreements to  share information  if that information  involves a                                                               
third-party that  needs to be protected.   The bill calls  on the                                                               
state to  provide water, sand, gravel,  and other non-hydrocarbon                                                               
natural resources to  AGDC and AGDC will pay the  usual prices to                                                               
the state for  these resources, but the costs  cannot be included                                                               
in the  tariff base for the  pipeline and passed on  to shippers.                                                               
Lastly,  SSHB 4  directs  DNR to  waive annual  fees  on a  state                                                               
right-of-way lease  for AGDC, which  is currently  costing nearly                                                               
$200,000 a year.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:15:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  asked whether  the  proposal  from AGDC  would                                                               
waive state  and local property  taxes during operations  as well                                                               
as during construction.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE answered  the bill  specifically waives  local and                                                               
state  property  taxes  on  a  gas pipeline  that  AGDC  has  any                                                               
involvement in;  for example,  a pipeline in  which AGDC  is part                                                               
owner or  a pipeline  financed by  AGDC.   She said  she believes                                                               
those local and  state taxes would be waived only  until that gas                                                               
is flowing.   She noted  it is  not generally reasonable  to have                                                               
one state  entity paying taxes  to another; therefore  Section 3,                                                               
the corporate authorities for AGDC,  exempts all property of AGDC                                                               
from state taxes,  as per most of the state's  corporations.  So,                                                               
she said,  the answer is  that it does a  little bit of  both and                                                               
what ultimately  happens will depend  on the  ownership structure                                                               
of the pipeline, whose property it is.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:16:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE, resuming  her review  of  SSHB 4,  stated that  a                                                               
large  part of  the  bill  is an  attempt  to resolve  regulatory                                                               
uncertainties  [slide 19].   Regulatory  uncertainties add  risk,                                                               
which adds costs  and can deter private  sector participation, so                                                               
AGDC and its private sector partners  need to know up front how a                                                               
pipeline  is   going  to  be   regulated.    Therefore,   SSHB  4                                                               
establishes  a  framework  within  the  state  to  accommodate  a                                                               
contract carrier pipeline  and it does this  through two avenues:                                                               
through  allowing natural  gas pipelines  to operate  as contract                                                               
carriers via changes to the  Right-of-Way Leasing Act and through                                                               
Regulatory  Commission of  Alaska  (RCA) oversight.   Second,  it                                                               
reinforces  the  state's  policy that  gas  pipeline  development                                                               
should  be fair  and should  offer reasonable  access to  new and                                                               
future shippers and encourage future  development of Alaska's oil                                                               
and gas resources.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:18:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE, regarding  the provision  to act  as a  contract                                                               
carrier,  asked how  space  would be  allocated  in the  pipeline                                                               
should the commitments  total more than the limit  of 500 million                                                               
cubic feet per day.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE confirmed  that,  under the  terms  of the  Alaska                                                               
Gasline Inducement  Act (AGIA), an AGDC  pipeline would currently                                                               
be limited to  500 million cubic feet a day.   The precise method                                                               
of allocating capacity initially is  something that AGDC needs to                                                               
determine and make known to the  RCA and to the people bidding on                                                               
its  pipeline.    Rather   than  legislatively  prescribing  that                                                               
[method],  AGDC  is  being  asked   to  make  that  part  of  its                                                               
commercial contracting.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:20:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE inquired whether that  would bid the tariffs up or                                                               
down.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE responded  she  is unsure  which  way the  bidding                                                               
would end up if people  are signing contracts without knowing who                                                               
else is  also signing contracts at  the same time.   She said she                                                               
thinks the  scenario of a  bidding war  is likely if  people know                                                               
what the other  parties are wanting to do and  the terms they are                                                               
wanting to  do it.   The sponsors are  cognizant that there  is a                                                               
limit right now  on pipeline size.  However, an  open season is a                                                               
year and  a half away  and it is difficult  to know if  the state                                                               
will still be a licensee under AGIA at that time.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT quipped  what  a  terrible position  the                                                               
State of Alaska would be in  should people bid more gas than this                                                               
proposed  project could  handle.   He  said he  thinks the  state                                                               
would step in  and make the right choice of  allowing any of them                                                               
to be included and sizing the project appropriately.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:21:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  asked whether an  open season is  an expression                                                               
of interest or a binding commitment to ship.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE answered  an open  season  in this  case would  be                                                               
binding.   She  explained  an open  season is  a  period of  time                                                               
during  which potential  shippers and  the pipeline  carrier talk                                                               
about terms and  negotiate.  What comes out of  an open season is                                                               
a precedent agreement  that is binding and  usually conditioned -                                                               
a contract that says there is  a deal provided certain things are                                                               
worked out.  Some of the  terms on a precedent agreement are very                                                               
standard, such as the project must  come in within a certain plus                                                               
or  minus of  budget, does  not face  delays, or  any outstanding                                                               
uncertainty is ironed  out.  Other things are  more particular to                                                               
a given project or a given shipper.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:23:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE,  turning back to  her review of SSHB  4, explained                                                               
the  reasons for  why contract  carrier status  [slide 20].   She                                                               
said  shippers on  a pipeline  need to  know the  space they  are                                                               
reserving by  signing a long-term  commitment will  be available.                                                               
Those firm,  uninterruptible contracts are the  way gas pipelines                                                               
are typically financed; the future  income promised through those                                                               
contracts  secures  the  revenue  bonds.   The  bill  establishes                                                               
contract  carrier status  while  providing for  expansion in  the                                                               
future.  So long as [a  future] expansion does not violate any of                                                               
the  terms  of  AGIA,  the  regulatory  framework  under  SSHB  4                                                               
absolutely provides  for expansions -  a pipeline is  required to                                                               
expand  when  it  is presented  with  a  commercially  reasonable                                                               
expansion project.   Expansion  can happen in  a number  of ways,                                                               
such as  adding compression or  looping.  The  difference between                                                               
contract  carrier  status  and  common  carrier  status  is  that                                                               
expansion  [of  a  contract carrier  pipeline]  cannot  make  the                                                               
existing  shippers pay  more than  their contracts  allow, so  an                                                               
expansion cannot raise their rates.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:24:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER inquired  how much  more capacity,  in general,                                                               
could be squeezed  out of a 24 inch  pipeline through compression                                                               
or looping.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE replied  it depends entirely on  the engineering of                                                               
each particular pipeline as to  how much pressure can go through,                                                               
how much  compression is already  in place,  and the size  of the                                                               
pipeline.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  presumed there  must  be  some absolute  limit                                                               
technologically.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:25:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE  recalled it  being  mentioned  earlier that  the                                                               
pipeline would be a [1,480] psi  line, 36 inches in diameter.  He                                                               
asked what the specification for  wall thickness would be on such                                                               
a line as well as the type of steel.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE deferred to an AGDC representative for an answer.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:25:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRANK  RICHARDS,  Manager,   Pipeline  Engineering  &  Government                                                               
Affairs,  Alaska  Gasline  Development Corporate  (AGDC),  Alaska                                                               
Housing Finance Corporation (AHFC),  Department of Revenue (DOR),                                                               
responded that  the pipe specifications  for AGDC's new  lean gas                                                               
case is  1,480 psi, American National  Standards Institute (ANSI)                                                               
600  pound class,  and approximately  .52 inches  wall thickness;                                                               
thus making the pipe approximately grade X60 or X65.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:26:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER inquired what the  expandability factor might be                                                               
of this pipe.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICHARDS  explained that under  the provisions of  AGIA, AGDC                                                               
is  limited to  designing  an in-state  pipeline  to 500  million                                                               
cubic feet per  day.  At the request of  the committee AGDC could                                                               
look at  the ultimate capacity  of that  pipe, but AGDC  has been                                                               
very specific in its designs to limit it to the 500 million.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  said that contradicts  what was said  about the                                                               
expandability of the pipeline via compression and so forth.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICHARDS answered  the capacity of flow through  the pipe can                                                               
be increased by adding compression.   As a project, however, AGDC                                                               
has not done that because of the provisions of AGIA.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:28:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  asked whether  the committee  would be                                                               
violating the  terms of AGIA  if it  asked AGDC [to  calculate an                                                               
ultimate capacity].                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE deferred to legal counsel for an answer.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:28:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TINA GROVIER,  Attorney, Natural Resources and  Energy Law, Birch                                                               
Horton Bittner  & Cherot, Counsel  to Alaska  Gasline Development                                                               
Corporation (AGDC),  said she  would need to  look into  that and                                                               
determine  how  much  is publically  available  information  that                                                               
could  be  acquired  from  a  different  source,  as  opposed  to                                                               
actually causing  AGDC to go  through those  calculations, which,                                                               
in her mind, would cause some concern.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  said she  thinks the  committee should                                                               
get  that information  from  another source  also,  but that  she                                                               
would like  to know  the ramifications  before going  any further                                                               
with this.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  encouraged Ms.  Grovier to err  on the  side of                                                               
caution in regard to the aforementioned.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:30:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE, continuing  her discussion  about why  a contract                                                               
carrier pipeline  is needed [slide  20], explained that  a common                                                               
carrier pipeline  can have firm commitments,  but typically those                                                               
commitments  are  interruptible.   The  concept  behind a  common                                                               
carrier is  that when  other people want  room on  that pipeline,                                                               
those people with  existing space are then prorated  to make room                                                               
for  the new.   Enabling  contract carriage  gets the  state past                                                               
this difficulty.   In the state's  case it is very  much a matter                                                               
of financing  as well as  a matter of the  end users of  the gas.                                                               
Oil pipelines  tend to feed  into a hub of  some sort, such  as a                                                               
trading hub  or storage tanks.   Gas pipelines often  deliver gas                                                               
that is  used immediately for an  ongoing power source.   A power                                                               
plant or  industrial mine does not  typically store a lot  of the                                                               
gas being  received from a  pipeline.   People need to  know that                                                               
the amount  of gas they are  counting on through that  line every                                                               
day is going to always be there.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:31:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  reiterated that contract  carriage is  enabled two                                                               
ways:     through  the  Right-of-Way  Leasing   Act  and  through                                                               
Regulatory Commission  of Alaska (RCA)  oversight.  In  regard to                                                               
the Right-of-Way Leasing  Act [slide 21], a lessee  must agree to                                                               
a  set of  covenants in  statute to  get the  right-of-way lease.                                                               
Many of  those covenants  are very  nuts and  bolts, such  as the                                                               
lessee will  not abandon  a pipeline, will  abide by  the state's                                                               
rules, and will  take all the necessary precautions  to avoid any                                                               
environmental degradation.   The legislation creates  a subset of                                                               
covenants for  contract carriage.   A  contract carrier  is still                                                               
subject to all the nuts and  bolts covenants of a common carrier,                                                               
but a contract carrier would  not be subject to certain covenants                                                               
reflecting  common carrier  principles.   Under SSHB  4, contract                                                               
carrier  covenants  still  require a  pipeline,  per  contractual                                                               
terms,   to  provide   connections  with   other  pipelines   and                                                               
facilities.  The  contract carrier terms in SSHB  4 still require                                                               
expansions,  but on  commercially  reasonable terms  so that  the                                                               
rates  of existing  shippers  are not  adversely  affected.   The                                                               
contract carrier covenants  in the bill still  require a pipeline                                                               
to  ship without  "undo discrimination",  which accommodates  the                                                               
principle  that  certain classes  of  shippers  will probably  be                                                               
treated a little bit differently  than other classes of shippers.                                                               
For  example, the  terms for  a  group of  people shipping  small                                                               
quantities  will be  similar, but  those terms  will probably  be                                                               
different  from the  terms of  a group  of people  shipping large                                                               
quantities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:34:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE,  regarding  the bill's  enabling  of  a  contract                                                               
carrier gas pipeline through RCA  oversight [slide 22], explained                                                               
that  the RCA  regulates as  told to  do so  by the  legislature.                                                               
Currently, the RCA  has statutes directing it in  how to regulate                                                               
public utilities  and statutes  directing it  in how  to regulate                                                               
pipelines.   The  RCA's pipeline  regulation  has generally  been                                                               
used for  oil pipelines and reflects  common carriage principles.                                                               
There are some  provisions in statute for a  North Slope pipeline                                                               
that  have never  been  tested.   Therefore, SSHB  4  adds a  new                                                               
chapter to  law, AS  42.08, for  the RCA  to regulate  a contract                                                               
carrier gas pipeline.  This  new regulatory section tries to walk                                                               
that  balance  between  enabling   a  private  sector  commercial                                                               
contractual base project  to go forward and  protecting the other                                                               
parties that might  be involved, such as  public utilities buying                                                               
gas  that is  shipped  on a  line  like this,  or  that ship  gas                                                               
themselves, and  also ensuring that protections  for the ultimate                                                               
consumers  of  that gas  are  still  in  place through  the  RCA.                                                               
Therefore,  the contract  carrier  regulatory framework  requires                                                               
the  pipeline carrier  to give  a baseline  package of  rates and                                                               
terms,  called  a recourse  tariff,  to  all interested  parties.                                                               
Specific  rates  and  terms  are  then  negotiated  off  of  that                                                               
baseline.  The  point is to ensure that all  parties have had the                                                               
ability to get in on the same terms.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:35:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER inquired  whether "all  interested parties"  is                                                               
all  potential shippers  or both  sides  of the  shipper/supplier                                                               
agreement.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE  replied  she  is  meaning  shippers,  the  people                                                               
signing contracts  to ship  gas on  the pipeline.   She  said the                                                               
structure  requires the  RCA to  decide  if precedent  agreements                                                               
made after the  open season are just and reasonable.   The bill's                                                               
premise is that  contracts entered into willingly  by two parties                                                               
are just and reasonable or else  the contract would not have been                                                               
signed.  There are some checks and  balances.  The RCA is to take                                                               
a  much  stronger  look  at  contracts  made  between  affiliated                                                               
parties.  They  are to take a stronger look  at contracts that do                                                               
not  include  that recourse  tariff  and  that are  made  between                                                               
entities that have an existing relationship.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:36:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON asked  whether the RCA  currently deals                                                               
only with common carriers.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE  responded  the  RCA  currently  regulates  public                                                               
utilities and public  utility pipelines and also  has the ability                                                               
to regulate  under a chapter  for common carrier pipelines.   The                                                               
RCA does  not regulate things  like field gathering  lines within                                                               
an oil and gas development.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:37:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE,  returning to  her review of  RCA oversight  for a                                                               
contract  carrier  gas  pipeline  [slide  22],  stated  that  the                                                               
contract carrier  provisions in SSHB  4 try to  provide certainty                                                               
and protection for  the state's public utilities.   It is unknown                                                               
whether  public  utilities  will  actually  commit  to  long-term                                                               
shipping contracts on this pipeline  or whether they will buy gas                                                               
that  is  shipped on  this  pipeline  by the  marketer/aggregator                                                               
subsidiary mentioned  earlier.  A  standard of review  is created                                                               
to where  contracts involving  public utilities  can come  to the                                                               
RCA  for approval  before  they  are finalized.    That lets  the                                                               
public utility know that it will  be able to recover the costs it                                                               
is agreeing  to incur through  involvement with this  pipeline in                                                               
its rate base that is passed on to consumers.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:38:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER inquired whether  the regulatory authority would                                                               
change based on the ultimate destination  of gas, i.e. if some of                                                               
this gas were to be exported out of Alaska and/or the U.S.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  answered that  is possible,  but not  certain, and                                                               
would depend as to what percentage  of a pipeline is carrying gas                                                               
to export  and to what  destinations.  She requested  Ms. Grovier                                                               
to  provide further  explanation as  to when  the Federal  Energy                                                               
Regulatory Commission (FERC) may decide  to regulate on behalf of                                                               
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GROVIER said  her understanding  of the  FERC regulation  is                                                               
that gas exported  to the U.S., such as the  West Coast, would be                                                               
subject  to   FERC  jurisdiction;  but  gas   exported  to  other                                                               
locations, such as the Pacific Rim,  would not be subject to FERC                                                               
jurisdiction.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:39:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  understood, then,  that FERC would  be involved                                                               
for gas within  the U.S., but FERC would not  be involved for gas                                                               
exported outside the U.S.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GROVIER confirmed  the  co-chair's  understanding and  added                                                               
that FERC could elect not to  regulate if the volume is small and                                                               
has some  intra-state, but that  generally she thinks it  fair to                                                               
say that FERC would  be involved if it goes to  the West Coast or                                                               
elsewhere in the U.S.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:40:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER asked whether that  would be exclusively or just                                                               
to  the percentage  that was  being exported.   He  further asked                                                               
whether the  RCA would have  any piece of  this for gas  that was                                                               
used inside the state solely.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. GROVIER  offered her  understanding that  it would  depend on                                                               
the volume.   She said she believes FERC  could exercise complete                                                               
jurisdiction, but it  would depend on the volumes  and the intra-                                                               
state component and how significant FERC evaluated that to be.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER said  the committee  might follow  up later  on                                                               
this topic with Ms. Grovier.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:41:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.  WILSON  requested  Ms.  Delbridge  to  define                                                               
precedent agreements.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE explained  the pipeline  carrier  puts together  a                                                               
package specifying the amount of  space available, the rates, and                                                               
the  terms for  anyone wanting  to buy  and reserve  some of  the                                                               
space.  In  further response, she confirmed that this  is done in                                                               
the open season when potential  shippers and the carrier talk and                                                               
come  to an  agreement.    That agreement  is  referred  to as  a                                                               
precedent agreement; it is binding,  but is conditional on things                                                               
stated in the  agreement.  Once those conditions  are ironed out,                                                               
usually  at the  point of  sanctioning, the  precedent agreements                                                               
evolve  into a  firm transportation  contract/firm transportation                                                               
service agreement.   That  is when the  pipeline carrier  has met                                                               
all of those conditions in  a potential shipper's contract and so                                                               
that shipper is signing the final deal.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:42:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE [addressed  Co-Chair Saddler's  earlier question],                                                               
pointing out  that in this  regulatory statute the  sponsors have                                                               
been  explicit  that  it  applies  to  an  in-state  natural  gas                                                               
pipeline that  is not subject  to FERC's jurisdiction.   There is                                                               
no attempt  to take jurisdiction  when it is someone  else's, she                                                               
stressed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:43:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE returned to her  review of the regulatory structure                                                               
provided by SSHB 4.  Moving  to slide 23, she said the regulatory                                                               
structure  allows  the  confidential filing  of  those  precedent                                                               
agreements with the RCA.   The confidentiality is because some of                                                               
the terms in  those agreements are still being worked  out and in                                                               
need of commercial protections.   Once those precedent agreements                                                               
become final  contracts - firm  transportation agreements  - they                                                               
are made public at the  RCA; however, information can be withheld                                                               
from that publication if it  threatens the commercial position of                                                               
one of  the entities  involved in the  contract.   The regulatory                                                               
framework  requires  that  the  pipeline   get  from  the  RCA  a                                                               
certificate of public convenience  and necessity (CPCN), which is                                                               
equivalent to  a building  permit.   The CPCN  is the  RCA saying                                                               
that this pipeline  is needed and that the  people proposing this                                                               
pipeline are  able to  actually build,  maintain, and  operate it                                                               
the  way they  say they  will.   The  legislation puts  in a  few                                                               
special  terms for  an  AGDC pipeline  in  getting this  building                                                               
permit,  which  are  intended to  reflect  that  state-sanctioned                                                               
mission.   If the state is  telling AGDC to build  this pipeline,                                                               
then  the state  has already  decided that  it is  in the  public                                                               
interest, which  is one  of the findings  that the  RCA generally                                                               
has to  make in issuing  that building  permit.  Also,  the state                                                               
has made sure  that AGDC is financially capable of  doing this by                                                               
passing  legislation  giving  AGDC that  authority  and  ability,                                                               
which is another  one of the findings that the  RCA would usually                                                               
have to make in issuing a CPCN.   The RCA will still have to make                                                               
sure that AGDC  is technically fit, willing, and able  to do this                                                               
pipeline.    The RCA  needs  to  make  sure  AGDC has  the  right                                                               
expertise and personnel  on board to do this and  to do it right.                                                               
Further,  SSHB  4  allows  the   RCA  to  intervene  in  pipeline                                                               
management  when  there is  a  dispute  that cannot  be  resolved                                                               
between contracting parties and  that threatens the public health                                                               
and safety;  for example, if  because of a contractual  dispute a                                                               
power plant in  Southcentral Alaska would not get its  gas in the                                                               
middle of January,  the RCA has the authority to  step in and set                                                               
the terms.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:45:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  inquired whether  this provision  denies access                                                               
to the courts in this kind of dispute resolution.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  responded she  does not  believe it  denies access                                                               
necessarily to  the courts.   The concern is  that if there  is a                                                               
threat to  the public health  and safety there  is no time  to go                                                               
through courts;  someone needs to  take charge, iron  things out,                                                               
and  act promptly  in the  public's interest.   This  legislation                                                               
requires  that AGDC's  contracts  with its  shippers specify  and                                                               
include dispute  resolution methods; the  bill does not  say what                                                               
those  have to  be, just  that they  need to  be included  in the                                                               
contracts.   Thus, any disputes between  contracting parties that                                                               
are not public  health and safety issues will be  handled per the                                                               
terms of those contracts.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:46:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  surmised  this   deals  with  the  negotiation                                                               
because  he does  not  see  where an  imminent  danger to  public                                                               
health is  created at  the point  at which  this kind  of dispute                                                               
would arise.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  answered it is  a contingency that one  hopes will                                                               
never  happen.   However, this  is  a pipeline  carrier that  has                                                               
contracts  with multiple  parties and  something could  go astray                                                               
with the  carrier and one party  that cannot be ironed  out.  For                                                               
example, hypothetically, it could have  to do with connecting new                                                               
gas into  the pipeline at a  given time that is  being counted on                                                               
by  someone at  the end  or where  it will  interrupt the  volume                                                               
needed by a public utility to fire its power plant.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:47:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE,  resuming her review  of the  regulatory structure                                                               
provided  by SSHB  4 [slide  23], said  the regulatory  framework                                                               
sets  some standards.    To  date, she  explained,  the State  of                                                               
Alaska  has never  had a  need  for statutes  regulating an  open                                                               
season.  The  federal government has some  statutes regulating an                                                               
Alaska open  season, but something  needs to  be put in  place to                                                               
ensure that  the state also  has open  seasons that are  fair and                                                               
accessible  and  that   people  know  about  them   and  have  an                                                               
opportunity to participate.  Therefore,  SSHB 4 requires that the                                                               
carrier come up with its rules  for an open season, that it makes                                                               
those rules known, that those rules  apply to all the people that                                                               
come in  an open season,  and that everyone has  that opportunity                                                               
to know that  the open season is happening.   Also, when there is                                                               
new  capacity  or  future  expansion  of  the  pipeline,  SSHB  4                                                               
requires  there be  an  open season  for that  because  it is  an                                                               
opportunity  for anyone  thinking about  developing a  project to                                                               
get into the  pipeline at a convenient time and  make the most of                                                               
any  given expansion  opportunity.   Ms. Delbridge  concluded her                                                               
review of the  bill's regulatory framework by noting  that SSHB 4                                                               
further sets  timelines that are  intended to not  interfere with                                                               
the commercial  processes.  She said  that is one reason  why the                                                               
precedent agreements are presented to  the RCA before they become                                                               
final transportation agreements.   The RCA has  an opportunity to                                                               
approve them early on in the  process, which means that the final                                                               
agreements between the shippers and  the pipeline carrier are not                                                               
contingent on some future action of  the RCA once the pipeline is                                                               
flowing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:50:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE next provided a sectional  analysis of SSHB 4.  She                                                               
paraphrased from  the sectional analysis for  Section 1, Findings                                                               
and Intent [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
   · Finds that an Alaska Gasline Development Corporation                                                                       
     (AGDC) natural gas pipeline is in the best interests                                                                       
     of the state, and required for public convenience and                                                                      
     necessity.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          The  Regulatory Commission  of  Alaska (RCA)  uses                                                                    
          these standards in issuing a  building permit to a                                                                    
          project. Through this  section, the legislature is                                                                    
          making these findings on behalf of the RCA.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
   · Finds it is the state's policy to make the state's                                                                         
     royalty gas available to be shipped in an AGDC                                                                             
     pipeline.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          Royalty  gas may  be an  important  volume for  an                                                                    
          instate  gas  pipeline.   This  finding  does  not                                                                    
          address  ownership  of  state  royalty  gas,  only                                                                    
          transportation.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
   ·  Finds that locating AGDC under the Department of                                                                          
     Commerce, Community and Economic Development [DCCED],                                                                      
     for administrative purposes only, will advance AGDC's                                                                      
     mission.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          Establishing AGDC  as an independent  state entity                                                                    
          with a  clear purpose and the  statutory authority                                                                    
          to meet its mission will  make AGDC more likely to                                                                    
          succeed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:52:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER surmised the italicized portions of the                                                                        
sectional analysis are an elaboration on the main point.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE replied it is an attempt to explain the purpose                                                                   
for the legislative finding or intent.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:52:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE continued paraphrasing from the sectional analysis                                                                
regarding Section 1 [original punctuation provided]:                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
   · Provides intent that AGDC's transfer from an Alaska Housing                                                                
     Finance Corporation (AHFC) subsidiary to a stand-alone                                                                     
     corporation will be treated as a repositioning and not as                                                                  
     creating a new entity.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          This intent should prevent the need to dissolve AGDC                                                                  
          and re-create it as a new corporation; as a transfer,                                                                 
          AGDC will need to amend bylaws and regulations.                                                                       
   · Provides intent that AGDC will procure services, labor,                                                                    
    products and resources from Alaska businesses, including                                                                    
    Alaska Native corporations and municipal organizations,                                                                     
     when prices are competitive.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
   · Provides intent that AGDC will, as possible, hire Alaskans;                                                                
     establish hiring facilities in Alaska; and use Department                                                                  
     of Labor and Workforce Development systems.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:53:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked  what the advantage is  for having AGDC                                                               
under DCCED rather than AHFC.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE  responded AHFC  is  the  state's housing  finance                                                               
corporation, whose  basic mission is admittedly  unrelated to gas                                                               
pipeline development.   The AHFC  served as a wonderful  place to                                                               
incubate an idea, to  name a team, and to get  a plan together to                                                               
see if this is  possible.  Now that this is  possible, it is time                                                               
for the  state, in the  sponsors' eyes,  to get serious  about it                                                               
and create  an entity  that is charged  with gas  pipelines, that                                                               
has  the absolute  mission, relevancy,  and  experience to  carry                                                               
that out.  The private  sector - potential pipeline owners, joint                                                               
owners,  shippers,  and  financiers  - will  react  favorably  to                                                               
knowing the state  takes this so seriously that it  is willing to                                                               
pull AGDC out of AHFC and make it happen.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:55:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  inquired why  not put  AGDC with  the Alaska                                                               
Energy Authority (AEA), which seems like a more natural spot.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE answered  AEA is  an authority  and she  is unsure                                                               
whether AEA can make subsidiary  corporations.  She related that,                                                               
to the sponsors,  an in-state gas pipeline is  all about Alaska's                                                               
communities, economic development,  commerce, and commercializing                                                               
part  of the  North  Slope  gas resource.    A stand-alone  state                                                               
corporation  must go  under  something and  DCCED  was a  logical                                                               
choice of the  sponsors.  However, she added, it  is strictly for                                                               
administrative  purposes,  budget   appropriations  or  requests,                                                               
there is no real management interface or policy interface.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:56:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE  returned  to   paraphrasing  from  the  sectional                                                               
analysis [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section  2  (conforming)  deletes  from  AS  18.56.086,                                                                
     Alaska Housing Finance  Corp, Creation of subsidiaries,                                                                    
     the ability to create a pipeline subsidiary.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Section 3 (new corporation)  adds a new chapter, Alaska                                                                
     Gasline  Development Corporation,  to  AS  31, Oil  and                                                                    
     Gas. This  section is the  statutory authority  for the                                                                    
     stand-alone corporation.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     (As  AHFC's  statutes  were the  basis  for  developing                                                                    
     AGDC's  statutes,  similarities   are  noted  for  each                                                                    
     section.)                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          Sec. 31.25.010, Structure,  establishes AGDC as an                                                                  
          independent  public  corporation   of  the  state,                                                                    
          located for administrative  purposes in DCCED, and                                                                    
          makes  provisions  for   asset  distribution  upon                                                                    
          termination.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
         (Termination language is from AHFC 18.56.020)                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:57:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER requested the names of other state-owned                                                                       
corporations.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE replied the Alaska  Permanent Fund Corporation, the                                                               
Alaska  Railroad, the  Alaska  Housing  Finance Corporation,  the                                                               
Alaska Industrial  Development and Export Authority  (AIDEA), and                                                               
she believes the Tobacco Settlement Corporation.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:58:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE turned back to the sectional analysis, continuing                                                                 
with Section 3 [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  31.25.020, Governing  body,  establishes a  five-                                                                  
     member  board of  directors, serving  staggered, seven-                                                                    
     year terms.  Members are appointed by  the governor and                                                                    
     must  be  confirmed  by   the  legislature.  In  making                                                                    
     appointments, the governor  shall consider expertise in                                                                    
     natural  gas   pipeline  construction,   operation  and                                                                    
     marketing;  finance;  and   large  project  management.                                                                    
     Members may  be removed only for  cause; vacancies will                                                                    
     be filled in the same  way as original appointments are                                                                    
     made. Board  members receive $400 compensation  per day                                                                    
     spent  on  official  board  business,  in  addition  to                                                                    
     actual expenses.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     (Similar  to AHFC  18.56.030,  except  AHFC requires  a                                                                    
     regional  quota of  board  members,  and permits  board                                                                    
     members to  designate a  deputy. AHFC's  board includes                                                                    
     commissioners; AGDC's board does not)                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     A small, highly qualified,  specialized board with long                                                                    
     terms is  expected to be  flexible and  responsive, and                                                                    
     able to see through  an important project. Compensation                                                                    
     is commensurate  with that paid to  Alaska Railroad and                                                                    
     Permanent  Fund Corporation  board members;  AHFC board                                                                    
     members  are  compensated   at  a  substantially  lower                                                                    
     level, $100.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:59:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  asked whether  there would  be term  limits for                                                               
reappointment; for example, a maximum of one or two terms.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE responded  there is  no language  related to  term                                                               
limits.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:59:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON inquired  whether a designated deputy to                                                               
the board must go to the  other meetings to ensure that he/she is                                                               
[up to speed] on everything.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  answered that many  of the existing  frameworks do                                                               
allow a deputy  to be appointed.  However, she  said she does not                                                               
believe SSHB 4  allows for deputies to the board,  which is often                                                               
something that  is done when  there are commissioners on  a board                                                               
whose time is pulled in many different directions.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:00:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE  inquired whether  a  five-member  board will  be                                                               
enough  people,  given  the  wide   variety  of  professions  and                                                               
expertise  that will  be needed  for  a project  as extensive  in                                                               
scope as this.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE  related  there  was  much  discussion  among  the                                                               
sponsors  as  well  as  consultation with  people  who  have  had                                                               
experience in this  as to what size board is  unwieldy versus too                                                               
small  to  bring  the  needed leadership  and  expertise.    Five                                                               
members  seemed  a strong,  intact  board  that would  balance  a                                                               
strong   executive  director   of   an   organization  and   work                                                               
complementary in advancing this project efficiently and quickly.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:02:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER asked whether the  board members are required to                                                               
be Alaska residents.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE  replied there  is  no  requirement that  they  be                                                               
Alaska residents.   The  sponsors anticipate  that some  will be,                                                               
but not  all, and that  the governor  should have some  leeway in                                                               
his appointments so  he is able to find people  with the greatest                                                               
expertise to advance this project forward.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:02:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK inquired  how the  terms of  the five  board                                                               
members will be staggered.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  drew attention to page  5 of the bill,  lines 6-9,                                                               
which state:   "the terms  of the initially appointed  members of                                                               
the board shall  be set by the  governor to be two  years for one                                                               
member, three  years for one  member, five years for  one member,                                                               
and seven years for two members."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:03:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  surmised that  is a pretty  standard staggering                                                               
of terms for an initial creation of a board.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE nodded yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER reminded  Ms. Delbridge that he  had asked about                                                               
allowing  a second  term so  the  expertise of  the first  person                                                               
coming on is not lost.  He said he would come up with that.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:03:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON  remarked it appears that  this is going                                                               
to be  very intense for the  first several years, so  these board                                                               
members  may at  first  have  to work  every  day  of the  month,                                                               
including weekends,  at $400 per day.   She asked how  much money                                                               
that could come up to be.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE  replied  the   board  versus  executive  director                                                               
structure was  built to  ensure a  strong executive  director and                                                               
strong  management  within the  organization  so  that the  board                                                               
could  act  more  as  board members  instead  of  hands-on  daily                                                               
affairs  managers.   It is  always a  bit of  a balancing  act to                                                               
determine the  appropriate boundaries for corporations  that have                                                               
a board  and an executive director.   Because of the  balance and                                                               
because of separations that have been  included in SSHB 4 so that                                                               
the  executive  director is  the  one  charged with  running  the                                                               
actual  corporation, the  sponsors  believe  that [needing  daily                                                               
management by the board members] will not be a problem.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:05:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON presumed, then,  that it would  be like                                                               
an advisory board.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE responded  it would not be advisory.   She said she                                                               
will get back  to the committee with information as  to what kind                                                               
of business the  board will need to be doing  outside of a formal                                                               
meeting in order to claim that per diem.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:06:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE commented  Representative P.  Wilson brings  up a                                                               
good point.   Given this is a $7 billion  project, the state will                                                               
want to get  the best people it  can to oversee it, he  said.  He                                                               
questioned whether  $400 per  day will be  enough to  attract the                                                               
best  people possible,  as  it is  less than  what  a Twin  Otter                                                               
captain would make.  He added  that a five-member board is a lean                                                               
board and  will consist  of the  five different  specialties that                                                               
the governor is  supposed to pick from.  Given  the board's small                                                               
size,  he suggested  that the  quorum  to conduct  business be  a                                                               
minimum  of all  five members  so there  is input  from all  five                                                               
major project areas.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE replied that is  an excellent suggestion.  She said                                                               
the bill as currently written requires  for a meeting a quorum of                                                               
three members.  However, the  sponsors decided that this board is                                                               
going to be making some  very significant decisions that Alaskans                                                               
are  really relying  on, and  therefore for  substantive matters,                                                               
significant board  matters, including bond issuances,  whether to                                                               
commit to a  project, whether to transfer or dispose  of parts of                                                               
the  project,  a  majority  of  the  board  is  required  for  an                                                               
affirmative vote, so that a minority  of the board is not able to                                                               
be a majority vote on an action that is of significance.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:08:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE specified he would still like to see all five,                                                                   
but said it can be addressed later.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked whether Co-Chair Feige is talking                                                                  
about all five for a quorum, not for a vote.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE answered correct, a quorum to conduct business.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:08:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE again turned back to Section 3, paraphrasing from                                                                 
the sectional analysis [original punctuation provided]:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.030,  Meetings of  board, directs  the board                                                                  
     to  annually  elect officers;  defines  a  quorum as  a                                                                    
     majority  of members;  and requires  meetings at  least                                                                    
     once  every  three   months.  Electronic  meetings  are                                                                    
     allowed. For a meeting in  which the board authorizes a                                                                    
     bond  issuance,  at least  24  hours  public notice  is                                                                    
     required.  At least  three board  members are  required                                                                    
     for  major   votes,  including  bond  sales;   sale  or                                                                    
     disposition   of   assets;   determining   a   pipeline                                                                    
     ownership  structure; and  participation in  a pipeline                                                                    
     project.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     (Similar to  AHFC 18.56.040, with  the addition  of the                                                                    
     majority for major votes threshold)                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     A  quorum  for a  meeting  requires  three members.  To                                                                    
     avoid a situation  in which a minority of  the board is                                                                    
     able to  carry a major, substantive  vote, this section                                                                    
     requires a majority of members for certain votes.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Sec 31.25.035, Minutes of  meetings, requires the board                                                                  
     to keep minutes.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     (From AHFC 18.56.045)                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.040,  Administration of affairs,  allows the                                                                  
     board  to  manage  the  assets   and  business  of  the                                                                    
     corporation;  the board  may adopt,  amend, and  repeal                                                                    
     bylaws  and regulations;  and the  board will  delegate                                                                    
     corporation administration  to the  executive director.                                                                    
     Requires  the  board  to adopt  formal  procedures  for                                                                    
     procurement processes.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     (Similar  to  AHFC  18.56.050,  with  the  addition  of                                                                    
     requiring formal procedures for procurement)                                                                               
     AGDC is exempt  from the State Procurement  Code (HB 4,                                                                    
     Section   3,   31.25.140).   To  ensure   fairness   in                                                                    
     procurement, the board must adopt clear procedures.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:09:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON, returning to meetings of the AGDC board,                                                                
observed that electronic meetings are allowed.  He inquired                                                                     
whether that includes voting.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE  replied  the  same kind  of  notice  applies  for                                                               
electronic meetings.   The bill provides that the  board may meet                                                               
and transact business  by electronic media; thus,  a board member                                                               
would not necessarily have to be present.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:10:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE, resuming her review of Section 3, paraphrased                                                                    
from the sectional analysis [original punctuation provided]:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.   31.25.045,  Executive   director,  requires   an                                                                  
     executive director  who is appointed  by and  serves at                                                                    
     the pleasure  of the board.  The director may not  be a                                                                    
     board member.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     (From AHFC 18.56.052)                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.050, Legal  counsel, directs the corporation                                                                  
     to retain legal counsel.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     (AHFC 18.56.055  makes the  attorney general  the legal                                                                    
     counsel for AHFC. Under this  section, AGDC will retain                                                                    
     independent legal counsel instead.)                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  31.25.060, Employment  of  personnel, allows  the                                                                  
     board    to   engage    professional   and    technical                                                                    
     consultants, and allows the  executive director to hire                                                                    
     corporation  employees and  contract with  consultants.                                                                    
     The board sets duties  and compensation for corporation                                                                    
     personnel.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     (Similar  to AHFC  18.56.060. Both  the  board and  the                                                                    
     corporation have the ability  to contract for services.                                                                    
     AHFC  allows the  director to  engage professional  and                                                                    
     technical  advisors  only  with the  board's  approval.                                                                    
     AGDC  does not  have this  requirement as  the director                                                                    
     may  have  to  move quickly  in  retaining  specialized                                                                    
         professional services and as a high number of                                                                          
     contracts will be awarded for technical services.)                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.065, Personnel exempt from State Personnel                                                                    
     Act, exempts AGDC from the State Personnel Act.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     (From AHFC 18.56.070)                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:11:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK re-emphasized  he would like to  know why the                                                               
state  procurement  code  will  not  work  for  AGDC,  given  the                                                               
problems  with independent  contractors that  have happened  with                                                               
the  Port  of  Anchorage.    He  said  he  believes  the  state's                                                               
procurement code  allows for almost  every opportunity  AGDC will                                                               
need to have  as far as procuring services and  materials.  There                                                               
needs to be  proper oversight and strong procurement  codes for a                                                               
mega-project  like this,  he  argued.   An  audit  of the  Alaska                                                               
Energy Authority (AEA) showed what  happened when the AEA did not                                                               
follow  its  own   procurement  codes  and  did   not  have  best                                                               
practices.   Therefore,  he continued,  he wants  to ensure  [the                                                               
state] is not going to get itself in trouble.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE responded  "duly noted" and said she  will get back                                                               
with that information.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER commented  he believes  the federal  government                                                               
was the overseer of the aforementioned rather than a contractor.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:13:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER   asked  what   the  Alaska   Railroad,  Alaska                                                               
Industrial Development  and Export  Authority (AIDEA),  AHFC, and                                                               
other  state-owned  corporations do  for  legal  counsel and  the                                                               
personnel act.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE answered  each one  has its  own similarities  and                                                               
differences and  said she will get  back to the committee  with a                                                               
precise comparison  for the procurement  code.  She  related that                                                               
the  attorney general  statutorily  serves as  legal counsel  for                                                               
most other public corporations of the state.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:13:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE,  continuing her review  of Section  3, paraphrased                                                               
from the sectional analysis [original punctuation provided]:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  31.25.070, Purpose,  directs AGDC  to advance  an                                                                  
     instate  natural gas  pipeline as  described in  AGDC's                                                                    
     July   2011  project   plan,   with  modifications   as                                                                    
     necessary, making gas available  as soon as practicable                                                                    
     to  Fairbanks,  Southcentral,   and  other  communities                                                                    
     where  possible; and  try to  ship and  deliver gas  at                                                                    
     commercially reasonable rates.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:14:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER inquired whether  there is a distinction between                                                               
"commercially reasonable  rates" and  "lowest cost  to consumers"                                                               
as laid out in the authorizing legislation.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE  confirmed they are  two different terms,  and said                                                               
consumers and Alaskans who need  an in-state energy solution need                                                               
gas  at the  lowest possible  rates.   It seemed  reasonable that                                                               
this  pipeline  would  need to  present  commercially  reasonable                                                               
terms to people who would be  using the pipeline other than those                                                               
people for whom the state is trying to get gas for in the end.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:15:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE,   proceeding  with  her  review   of  Section  3,                                                               
paraphrased  from the  sectional  analysis [original  punctuation                                                               
provided]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.080,  Powers and duties, lists  21 powers of                                                                  
     the corporation,  including the abilities  to determine                                                                    
     pipeline  ownership  and  operating  structures;  plan,                                                                    
     finance,  construct  and  operate  a  pipeline  system;                                                                    
     lease,  rent,  acquire  and manage  property;  exercise                                                                    
     eminent domain; transfer  or dispose of all  or part of                                                                    
     a  pipeline  system;  operate as  a  contract  carrier;                                                                    
     conduct  hearings;  sue  and  be  sued;  adopt  bylaws;                                                                    
     borrow money;  and invest funds.  Prohibits development                                                                    
     of  a pipeline  that competes  under the  terms of  the                                                                    
     Alaska   Gasline   Inducement  Act   (AGIA).   Requires                                                                    
     publication of open season results.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     This   section    includes   abilities    for   general                                                                    
     corporation  operation, such  as  the  ability to  make                                                                    
     contracts and  to adopt an official  seal, carried over                                                                    
     from  AHFC  statutes.  This  section  also  includes  a                                                                    
     number of  abilities specific to AGDC's  purpose. Under                                                                    
     this  section,  AGDC may  not  develop  a project  that                                                                    
     competes  under the  terms of  AGIA,  unless a  project                                                                    
     under AGIA  has been  abandoned or  the licensee  is no                                                                    
     longer  receiving state  inducements. If  AGDC received                                                                    
     commitments for  capacity in an open  season, AGDC must                                                                    
     publicize  the  name of  each  shipper;  the amount  of                                                                    
     capacity  allocated;  and the  length  of  time of  the                                                                    
     commitment.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.     31.25.090,    Confidentiality;     interagency                                                                  
     cooperation,   allows    state   agencies    to   share                                                                  
     information  with  AGDC;  requires  state  agencies  to                                                                    
     cooperate  with   AGDC  and   give  priority   to  AGDC                                                                    
     requests,   except   for   requests   from   the   AGIA                                                                    
     coordinator;  and  directs  AGDC to  avoid  duplicating                                                                    
     state work  on a pipeline. State  entities must provide                                                                    
     non-hydrocarbon resources  like water, sand  and gravel                                                                    
     to  AGDC at  usual cost,  but  those costs  may not  be                                                                    
     recovered in the pipeline tariffs.  DNR will grant AGDC                                                                    
     a right-of-way lease at no  appraisal or rental cost if                                                                    
     certain  conditions are  met;  the  fee waiver  carries                                                                    
     with the  lease in  case of a  transfer, which  must be                                                                    
     approved  by  the  commissioner. AGDC  may  enter  into                                                                    
     confidential  agreements as  necessary, including  with                                                                    
     other   state  entities;   information  covered   by  a                                                                    
     confidentiality agreement is  not subject to disclosure                                                                    
     under the Public Records Act.  AGDC may also keep other                                                                    
     information  confidential,  including  the  results  of                                                                    
     field  studies; technical  information; trade  secrets;                                                                    
     and   commercial    negotiations.   AGDC    may   waive                                                                    
     confidentiality of some information.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:17:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  31.25.100, In-state  natural  gas pipeline  fund,                                                                  
     establishes  the  instate-natural   gas  pipeline  fund                                                                    
     within AGDC and directs fund use.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.110, International  borrowing, provides AGDC                                                                  
     the authority  to access international  capital markets                                                                    
     to borrow money.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     (From AHFC 18.56.084)                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  31.25.120,  Creation  of  subsidiaries;  sale  of                                                                  
     natural  gas by  a  subsidiary, allows  AGDC to  create                                                                  
     subsidiary   corporations  to   meet  AGDC's   mission,                                                                    
     including to acquire and ship  the state's royalty gas.                                                                    
     Allows   a   subsidiary,    together   with   the   DNR                                                                    
     commissioner,  to pledge  state  royalty  gas to  honor                                                                    
     delivery commitments. The DNR commissioner will decide                                                                     
     how much gas to pledge, and at what price.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     (Similar to AHFC 18.56.086, but tailored to AGDC)                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:18:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  asked whether  the authority would  actually be                                                               
from the  DNR commissioner.   He said that  seems to be  a pretty                                                               
important  transfer of  rights to  a subsidiary  organization and                                                               
further asked how that would work.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE replied  the language  in SSHB  4 would  "allow an                                                               
AGDC subsidiary to  make commitments to ship  the state's royalty                                                               
gas  and then  would  allow  DNR and  the  authority together  to                                                               
pledge gas  to meet those  commitments. ... The  subsidiary would                                                               
need to  know that  it has  gas available, but  then it  would be                                                               
between the subsidiary and DNR to  decide, in fact, that this gas                                                               
is available for shipment."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:19:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  understood the  commissioner has  the authority                                                               
to decide how  to dispose of state royalty gas,  which would work                                                               
if it coincided with what was  in the interest of AGDC.  However,                                                               
he  continued, it  sounds like  what is  being said  is that  the                                                               
subsidiary of  AGDC has the  right to tell the  commissioner that                                                               
he "shall" dedicate royalty gas.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DELBRIDGE responded  the language  is that  the commissioner                                                               
"may" pledge that royalty gas  to honor those commitments made by                                                               
the subsidiary.   There is no "shall" - it  is absolutely the DNR                                                               
commissioner's  authority  to  decide,  along  with  the  state's                                                               
royalty gas board,  how the state's royalty gas is  managed.  The                                                               
language  in  SSHB  4  provides for  the  commissioner  to  treat                                                               
management  of  royalty  gas  through an  AGDC  subsidiary  as  a                                                               
disposal  for other  purposes, which  means that  there does  not                                                               
need to  be competitive bid  or the  following of those  kinds of                                                               
regulations for those quantities.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:20:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  commented  one  would  assume  that  the  AGDC                                                               
subsidiary would  not negotiate  that in  isolation from  the DNR                                                               
commissioner,  but  this would  allow  the  DNR commissioner  the                                                               
ability to  say no and  then the mess on  the other end  with the                                                               
subsidiary would have to be cleaned up.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE nodded affirmatively.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:20:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE, resuming her review of Section 3, paraphrased                                                                    
from the sectional analysis [original punctuation provided]:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.130,  Administrative procedure; regulations,                                                                  
     exempts  AGDC from  the  Administrative Procedure  Act,                                                                    
     except  for the  Open  Meetings  Act portion.  Provides                                                                    
     board  direction related  to  bylaws, regulations,  and                                                                    
     public notice of meetings.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     (From AHFC  18.56.088, but  tailored by  removing parts                                                                    
     that relate to extending loans (for housing)                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  31.25.140, Exemption  from the  State Procurement                                                                  
     Code   and  the   Executive  Budget   Act;  corporation                                                                  
     finances, exempts  AGDC and  its subsidiaries  from the                                                                  
     State Procurement  Code and  the Executive  Budget Act.                                                                    
     Requires an annual independent audit.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     (AHFC  has a  partial  exemption  in 18.56.089.  AGDC's                                                                    
     exemption  is   broader.  Both  require   annual  asset                                                                    
     reviews and independent audits.)                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.150,  Federal taxation of interest  on bonds                                                                  
     and   bond  anticipation   notes,  provides   that,  if                                                                  
     interest  on  bonds  or  notes  becomes  taxable  under                                                                    
     federal income  tax laws, the  legislature may  pay off                                                                    
     the principal and interest.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     (From  AHFC 18.56.103.  This section  creates a  moral,                                                                    
     but not  legal, obligation of  the state. It  serves as                                                                    
     reassurance  for lenders  who count  on the  tax-exempt                                                                    
     quality of revenue bonds.)                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.   31.25.160,   Bonds   and   notes,   allows   the                                                                  
     corporation to  issue bonds  and notes  in one  or more                                                                    
     series, limited to the corporation's own backing.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     (Similar  to AHFC  18.56.110. With  this section,  AGDC                                                                    
     can  issue  bonds  to meet  its  corporate  purpose  of                                                                    
     financing  a  gas  pipeline, supported  by  anticipated                                                                    
     revenue from  the pipeline,  as evidenced  by long-term                                                                    
     transportation  contracts.   Much  of   AHFC's  bonding                                                                    
     authority  directly   relates  to  housing   and  other                                                                    
     specific programs, and as such  was not included. Also,                                                                    
     AHFC  is limited  to the  amount of  bonds issued  in a                                                                    
     calendar year  without legislative  authorization. AGDC                                                                    
     does not  have this limitation, as  exact project costs                                                                    
     cannot be  determined with certainty at  this time, and                                                                    
     may fluctuate if delays occur in project progress.)                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.170,  Independent financial  advisor, allows                                                                  
     the  corporation  to  retain  a  financial  advisor  in                                                                    
     negotiating the  private sale of  bonds or notes  to an                                                                    
     underwriter.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     (From AHFC 18.56.115)                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE elaborated it was  explained to her that oftentimes                                                               
that underwriter  has a stake in  the game and would  like to see                                                               
things  done  a  certain  way.    When  AGDC  can  bring  in  its                                                               
independent advisor,  that person's stake  in the game  is simply                                                               
advising its  client, so this  provides a nice balance  to ensure                                                               
that AGDC's interests are well represented.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:22:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER requested elaboration  on Sec. 31.25.160 and the                                                               
language "limited  to the corporation's  own backing".   He asked                                                               
what a practical limit would be.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE AGDC  answered the language means  that AGDC cannot                                                               
promise the  state's faith and  credit, that AGDC and  AGDC alone                                                               
is responsible for those funds.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:22:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE, returning to her  review of Section 3, paraphrased                                                               
from the sectional analysis [original punctuation provided]:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.180,  Validity of pledge, declares  as valid                                                                  
     and  binding any  pledge of  assets or  revenue of  the                                                                    
     corporation to payment or interest.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     (From  AHFC 18.56.120.  This  is  a standard  statement                                                                    
     that lenders need to see.  It assures lenders that AGDC                                                                    
     has  the  statutory  authority to  pledge  revenue;  in                                                                    
     turn,  that  protects  AGDC contracts  under  the  U.S.                                                                    
     Constitution  contracts  clause  so that  future  state                                                                    
     legislative    action    cannot    violate    protected                                                                    
     contracts.)                                                                                                                
     Sec. 31.25.190,  Capital reserve funds, allows  AGDC to                                                                  
     establish   capital  reserve   funds   to  secure   its                                                                    
     obligations,  and  directs  fund  management.  Requires                                                                    
     annual reports to the governor and legislature.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     (From AHFC 18.56.125  with structural modifications per                                                                    
     legal counsel.  This section includes a  moral, but not                                                                    
     legal,  obligation  of  the   state  to  replenish,  if                                                                    
     necessary,  a reserve  fund created  to cover  interest                                                                    
     payments due on bonds.)                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  31.25.200,   Remedies,  permits   enforcement  of                                                                  
     rights by those holding AGDC obligations.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     (From AHFC  18.56.130 with structural changes  by legal                                                                    
     counsel. Lenders need to see this standard statement.)                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:24:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.  WILSON,  regarding Sec.  31.25.190,  inquired                                                               
whether a  "moral" versus "legal"  obligation means  "legally you                                                               
don't have to do it, but you better."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE replied  that SSHB 4 does not bind  the state, or a                                                               
future legislature  of the  state, to  appropriating money  to do                                                               
something;  therefore it  is not  a legal  obligation.   It is  a                                                               
moral obligation  in the sense  the provision says the  state may                                                               
do this  in the future,  which is creating that  moral obligation                                                               
that  it is  [the legislature's]  intent now  that in  the future                                                               
that does occur.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON concluded  her statement  was therefore                                                               
correct.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. DELBRIDGE nodded yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:25:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER held over HB 4.                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB04 Hearing Request.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB04 Sectional Analysis.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB04 Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB04 Version O.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB04 AGC Letter.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB04 Alliance Resolution.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB04 City of Kenai Resolution.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB04 PowerPoint.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB04 RDC Letter.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB04 Fiscal Note AGDC.pdf HRES 2/4/2013 1:00:00 PM
HB 4